Unpopular opinion

"Leadbull" (leadbull911) 02/07/2016 at 12:43 • Filed to: Oppositelock

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Crossovers are better vehicles than sedans. They’re often based on sedan platforms, but offer more utility and usability.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:46

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But that particular is based on this:

BeaterGT > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:47

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Except they are not outfitted for the additional utility or usability and end up with the same practical capacity.

daender > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:48

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Fair opinion.

Counterpoint:

Wagons; usability of a crossover but with better fuel efficiency and handling characteristics.

Also, how often do crossover and CUV/SUV owner actually use their higher ride height? All the owners around here are too scared to even go over a curb!

Berang > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:50

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Define “usability” and “utility”.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:50

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Crossovers are just lifted, bloated hatchbacks with less utility than a proper wagon.

Leadbull > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/07/2016 at 12:50

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Really? The old one was based on the 3er, so I just assumed they continued that...

fhrblig > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:50

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That’s because they’re hatchbacks. Hatchbacks are a good thing.

Berang > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/07/2016 at 12:51

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So the question is which is actually more usable and utilityful.

PatBateman > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:51

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Fair assessment, HOWEVER:

Leadbull > Berang 02/07/2016 at 12:51

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You can put more things in the back, and the ground clearance is a little higher.

HammerheadFistpunch > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:52

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The crossover is to wagon as wagon is to sedan

dogisbadob > daender 02/07/2016 at 12:52

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They’re too scared to go over a curb, but they do it anyway (bad drivers) :p

pjhusa > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/07/2016 at 12:55

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It's a modular architecture, so...

Berang > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:56

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Maybe Jalopnik should do a comparison between the closest sedan and crossover vehicles from a given manufacturer and see what people really get.

Dusty Ventures > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 12:57

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The added ground clearance is so rarely used by crossover owners that it’s essentially a pointless feature though

Leadbull > Berang 02/07/2016 at 12:58

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Demuro should buy one of each and live with them for a year.

MultiplaOrgasms > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:01

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And at what point does the (negligible) increase in ground clearance balance out the clear disadvantages in terms of price, running costs, driving dynamics and comfort (keyword: higher center of mass)?

certified cool guy > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:03

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May I have a word with you

Under_Score > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 13:04

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My parents buy them because sedans are too low to the ground, and they’re painful to access on a regular basis. My dad’s xB is probably the lowest vehicle they’ve had since I’ve been alive.

yamahog > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:06

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Oppositelock - where one of the most popular opinions among the average carbuyer is an unpopular opinion, and you will be set upon by the horde

Leadbull > yamahog 02/07/2016 at 13:09

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Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:10

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The “Crossover” pictured above is basically a hatchback... with “crossover” marketing.

It’s not so much that crossovers are better. It’s that station wagons and hatchbacks are better than sedans... regardless of whether or not they have ‘crossover marketing’.

Steve in Manhattan > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:16

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Wagon.

Debunked!

yamahog > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:17

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Demuro should buy one of each and live with in them for a year.

I’d read that

Dusty Ventures > Under_Score 02/07/2016 at 13:21

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That’s perfectly fair and reasonable, and if a crossover makes their driving/lives easier they should absolutely have one. I have nothing against crossovers as a vehicle, my only frustration is in absolutely everyone feeling like they need one when most would actually be better served in a wagon/hatchback.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > PatBateman 02/07/2016 at 13:25

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The rear of that just reminds me of the troll from:

Svend > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:26

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For rural areas crossovers are ideal. Benefit of the hatchback or estate plus extra road clearance where vehicles aren’t necessarily used off road all the time but occasionally used for going across fields or mount grass verges.

Why the Subaru Outback, Legacy and Forester were often seen in rural areas.

And the Skoda Octavia Scout is often used by services in rural areas.

And other countries too.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 13:26

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Marketing ploy to make drivers feel “safer.” That is, now they’re high enough to decapitate Geo Metro drivers in a head-on collision.

Under_Score > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 13:27

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If they didn’t have these problems, a Camry would probably be in our family fleet.

Leadbull > yamahog 02/07/2016 at 13:31

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I’d probably cave and buy his book already.

Rico > daender 02/07/2016 at 13:31

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The extra 2-4 inches of ground clearance help when it snows and the higher seating position allows for more view of the road.

That said I prefer my cars low to the ground.

Rico > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 13:35

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The extra 2-4 inches of ground clearance help when it snows and the higher seating position allows for more view of the road. Look at Honda for example, a CRV certainly has more utility than a Civic or Accord. The higher roof with seats that fold down and can also be removed allows you to fit bulkier objects.

That said I prefer my cars low to the ground.

Bytemite > MultiplaOrgasms 02/07/2016 at 13:36

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The Crossover point.

Rico > Berang 02/07/2016 at 13:36

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The extra 2-4 inches of ground clearance help when it snows and the higher seating position allows for more view of the road. Look at Honda for example, a CRV certainly has more utility than a Civic or Accord. The higher roof with seats that fold down and can also be removed allows you to fit bulkier objects.

That said I prefer my cars low to the ground.

MultiplaOrgasms > Bytemite 02/07/2016 at 13:38

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#rekt

Rico > BeaterGT 02/07/2016 at 13:39

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It depends on the cars being compared but a Honda CRV has more usable cargo space than a Honda Accord even if you use folding rear seats.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:39

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No, the new X1 is FWD based

DasWauto > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 13:43

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Based on the public’s buying habits, this is not an unpopular opinion at all.

Dusty Ventures > Rico 02/07/2016 at 14:04

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In the case of most crossovers the higher roof actually does very little for cargo room because the floor is higher as well. For example, the CR-V is nine inches taller than the Civic but the difference in headroom is less than an inch.

911e46z06 > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 14:25

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SUV gas-mileage, looks, and performance with Sedan towing and off-road abilities. Worst of both worlds.

Rico > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 14:27

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Maybe it’s some weird voodoo but I’ve fit all kinds of bulky items in my family’s 2002 CRV that I know for a fact would not be able to fit in a Civic even if the Civic only has 1 less inch inside.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > daender 02/07/2016 at 14:57

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The problem with wagons is that unless you want to spend a ton of money on them (3 series, allroad, E class), you basically only have two options: the Outback and Golf Sportwagen.

marshknute > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 15:03

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Enough of this BS. The added ground clearance is used EVERY DAY. It’s higher up, so it’s easier to get in and out of. It’s easier to put a child in a carseat when the seat is at chest level. Plus you can see over sedans and sports cars when pulling out of a parking space/driveway. And you never have to worry about scraping the nose on a high curb, speed bump, etc.

You don’t have to go off-road to use the ground clearance in your everyday life.

PS9 > PatBateman 02/07/2016 at 15:07

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Hey BMW, bet you can’t make a german Aztek!

...no, wait. I was kidding. I didn’t mean it, I swear! Stop! STAAAAAHP

marshknute > daender 02/07/2016 at 15:09

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Crossover owners use that extra ground clearance EVERY DAY, and it’s NOT for off-road purposes. Crossovers sit high up because it makes them better cars. They’re far more ergonomic and usable because they’re built to the human scale.

It’s higher up, so it’s easier to get in and out of. It’s easier to put a child in a carseat when the seat is at chest level. Plus you can see over sedans and sports cars when pulling out of a parking space/driveway. And you never have to worry about scraping the nose on a high curb, speed bump, etc. Plus you can drive over deep snow without scraping the undercarriage.

I love the idea of a wagon, but they’re comprehensively inferior to CUVs/SUVs from an ergonomic standpoint.

marshknute > MultiplaOrgasms 02/07/2016 at 15:13

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You call the difference in ground clearance “negligible,” but it isn’t. It makes a HUGE difference in terms of ergonomics and utility.

Crossover owners use that extra ground clearance EVERY DAY, and it’s NOT for off-road purposes. Crossovers sit high up because it makes them better cars. They’re far more ergonomic and usable because they’re built to the human scale.

It’s higher up, so it’s easier to get in and out of. It’s easier to put a child in a carseat when the seat is at chest level. Plus you can see over sedans and sports cars when pulling out of a parking space/driveway (this is huge, huge , HUGE ; it’s soooooo much easier to drive around town when you have a higher sightline). And you never have to worry about scraping the nose on a high curb, speed bump, etc. Plus you can drive over deep snow without scraping the undercarriage.

Dusty Ventures > marshknute 02/07/2016 at 15:16

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Being able to see over sedans will only help while other people have sedans. Once they switch over to crossovers, as is the trend, that advantage will be gone.

marshknute > Dusty Ventures 02/07/2016 at 15:20

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So cross that off the list and you’re still left with:

1) easier ingress/egress

2) easier loading/unloading

3) will never scrape the nose

4) can drive over deep snow without scraping the undercarriage

That’s still a pretty damn impressive list of advantages.

PatBateman > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/07/2016 at 15:23

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It is SO DAMNED UGLY.

daender > marshknute 02/07/2016 at 15:28

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Good points!

Counterpoint:

Caprice Wagon with a LS7, T56, and Porsche brakes swaps. Seats an American-sized family of 6 with it’s rear-facing 3rd row seats.

Anyway, SUVs do have superior height advantage for visibility, but I find that it’s harder to see what’s around you with annoying-large blind spots (I’m looking at you Nissan and your 1st gen Murrano that my mom unfortunately owns). Coupled with piss-poor driving abilities from short moms and female teenagers, they’re a dangerous nuisance for Miata owners like me.

PatBateman > PS9 02/07/2016 at 15:31

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Ze bastardz thought we were serious

Berang > marshknute 02/07/2016 at 15:41

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10 years ago that would’ve been true. But modern cars have higher roofs and seating, which makes most of those advantages negligible.

TheOnelectronic > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 02/07/2016 at 15:44

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The outback is a crossover. I’m pretty sure it was the first one to really be popular.

Dusty Ventures > marshknute 02/07/2016 at 15:58

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All things you could have gotten in something like an Outback wagon or Volvo XC70, while still maintaining the balance, performance, and fuel economy of a car.

deekster_caddy > Rico 02/07/2016 at 16:10

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I disagree. Snow tires help with the snow. Ground clearance does not matter unless you frequently drive through 18" deep unplowed snow. I’ve driven low cars in deep snow and the front acts like a little plow... and never gotten stuck.

Seating position is the only advantage to this argument that holds, but personally I’ll take the better handling and fuel economy of the wagon. Staying closer to the ground improves fuel economy. Being lower and having less body roll helps your tires last longer.

Unfortunately nobody else cares about those things, so even for basic drivers who do not utilize their vehicles, “It’s nice to sit up high” trumps the improved economy and wear and tear characteristics of the wagon.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 16:37

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It's technically a crossover, but it's really a lifted wagon.

TheOnelectronic > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 02/07/2016 at 16:38

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Crossovers -are- lifted wagons. Some are just styled more “SUV-like” than others.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 16:40

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Well, some are lifted hatchbacks. I'd also argue something like a Honda Pilot is less of a lifted wagon than a highly bloated one.

MultiplaOrgasms > marshknute 02/07/2016 at 16:52

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I’m sorry to say that mate but you are just getting old.

marshknute > MultiplaOrgasms 02/07/2016 at 17:04

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You’re talking to a guy who DD’d a Miata with the top down in winter, and now drives a C6 Vette because it’s “more practical.”

But if I needed utility, I'd get a crossover, not a sedan/wagon.

MultiplaOrgasms > marshknute 02/07/2016 at 17:14

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And you’re talking to a guy who DD’d a bicycle in winter, and actually still does because it is cheap. But if I needed utility I’d get a tallsified hatchback or a good old, honest van.

garagemonkee > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 17:22

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I agree, but for one reason only.

Because so many others have SUVs, trucks, and cross-overs, if you want to have sort of visibility, you also need to be seated up higher than a sedan will seat you.

I live in downtown Seattle. I drive a slightly lowered mk6 GTI. I can’t see oncoming cars very well around all the street parked cars. It sucks.

Nauraushaun > Leadbull 02/07/2016 at 20:52

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better vehicles

No, better at some things, not at others.